Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Wed 10 Aug 2016, 9:05 pm

The workshop has been very quiet due to an intensive period of dog sitting! Anyway may be able to develop 12ft wheel base vans over the next week or two. Also having a few days away in the Lake District - possibly fit a trip on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway depending on weather and time table.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 2:06 pm

Missed out on a trip on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite as it was exceedingly crowded - at least three motor coaches had pulled in!

Anyway I have now completed another wagon. In this case LYR Diagram 33 Upper, which is a bogie wagon for the transport of Boilers. There were two built circa 1875, but were broken up in 1912 and replaced by Diagram 87 - still to be modelled.



The boiler is mythical but still serves in my eyes as an acceptable load!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 9:05 am

.  .  .  and here is another one. This time it's a Diagram 77 Mail Van of which 8 were built in 1910. They were developed from the Diagram 73 for the transport of letters by goods train, and they were typically used all over the LYR system.

My test consist includes 3, but I very much doubt that more than one ran in a train!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 9:25 am

Following on from the above I can see a light at the end of the tunnel for this particular project.

I have completed 9ft, 10ft and 10ft6in wheelbase wagons although I'll give them a final look when all are completed.

I have two 12ft wheelbase wagons to complete, including the Diagram 67 coal wagon which used an experimental roller bearing axle box - 100 built!

I have nine bogie type wagons to complete, plus two still require loads.

Finally there are 22 other assorted wagons with varying wheelbases and axle arrangements.

Once they are all something like, they will need to be sorted into wagon types; e.g. opens, vans, etc. and considered for upload. I guess with 33 wagons to build that would suggest 12 weeks work - one must never forget the never ending SWMBO list!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Thu 25 Aug 2016, 8:50 pm

Trying to develop a Diagram 36 Upper ( as listed in diagram book) and here are some screenshots of the main chassis/body and a bogie. I have yet to start any textures.





I think the spindle element that connects the bogie to the chassis needs changing; i.e. some parts should be square.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 27 Aug 2016, 8:08 pm

Here's the next stage in Diagram 36 Upper (Boiler Wagon 30T) development.

No known photograph exists as stated earlier but I reckon it would be not unreasonable to use similar lettering to that on Diagram 33 Upper. I also need to add some restraining rings to the sides for the boiler load. There are a fair few polys and therefore will need to give it a jolly good polymastering!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  Markh5682 on Sun 28 Aug 2016, 2:38 am

Looking good Alec. OK


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  RIGFindlay on Sun 28 Aug 2016, 7:49 am

A fine piece of engineering. Roderic

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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sun 28 Aug 2016, 6:47 pm

Here is the final version of Diagram 36 Upper - no load at the moment.


EDIT at 19:20 - just realised I need to add handbrake(s)!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 29 Aug 2016, 6:29 pm

The hand brakes have now been added along with the bracing, which I had also missed! Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed

Now need to sort out a load for this and Diagrams 59 Upper and 59 Lower. I might then have a go at Diagram 51, which was a 52T Well Wagon and was the highest capacity of any LYR wagon!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:04 pm

Load for 36U sorted and Diagram 51 started. Currently trying to sort out the bogie arrangement, Here's a screenshot showing the chassis/body to date.

There are still a few bits to add to this part as well.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 03 Sep 2016, 8:46 am

Well I'm not too far off with the Diagram 51 as shown in this screenshot.

I still have to add some handbrakes at each end, lettering to the sides and some straps for the loads. This shot includes a load - FreightAnim - showing the method of restraining the load with baulks of timber. The empty version has an alternative FreightAnim showing the timber baulks in their position for storage/movement.
The two wagons lasted through the LMS era into British Railways times being withdrawn in 1949 and 1950. Each wagon had a tare weight of 32 tons being only 11 tons lighter than the ubiquitous 0-4-0 "Pug"!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 8:37 pm

As is usual I got distracted and instead of completing Diagram 51, I completed a load for Diagram 11. This is a standard 4 ton Lurry typically hauled by horse power. However there is a fair amount of compromise, and I haven't included the shaft - may or may not add later!

I shall spend some time looking at detailed drawings I received from the main man in the LYR Society - mentioned in the Blackburn show report. These should enable me to develop more of the boiler and well wagons?


Last edited by rufuskins on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  slipperman12 on Mon 05 Sep 2016, 9:46 pm

Hi Alec,
I'm very impressed by the work you're doing - you certainly seem to have a flair for it!

Keep up the good work Smile

Cheers,
Ged

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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  RIGFindlay on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 9:25 am

I agree. It is most inspiring: real engineering. Roderic

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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 9:47 am

Many thanks for the kind words - always appreciated.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Wed 07 Sep 2016, 5:43 am

This is Diagram 74, which is a Low Goods wagon on a 12 ft wheel base, of which 100 were built in 1910. They were typically used over the whole system for general merchandise.

In the above screenshot I have used a container labelled for Pickfords as the LYR had none of their own. I don't know whether this is very realistic but hey ho!

It should be noted that I used a LYR container for Diagram 14, but this was created in ignorance of the above and hence the load for Diagram 14 will be amended in the near future!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Thu 08 Sep 2016, 1:20 pm

This is a rake of Diagram 7 Ballast wagons of which 235 were built between the 1870s and 1904. They were used all over the system in permanent way trains.

It can be seen that they used solid buffers, which was typical for ballast wagons in the 1870s and were termed by the LYR as "dumb" or "dead" buffer wagons.

Looking at the ballast loads the texture needs scaling down!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 10 Sep 2016, 6:09 pm

Due to other "life" commitments TSM work has been somewhat sketchy, although I have tried to continue to work up basic notes for the outstanding wagons. In addition I have managed to complete loads for Diagrams 9, 59 Lower and 59 Upper.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sun 11 Sep 2016, 1:04 pm

I have just noticed the post in the HFL area HERE on suitable engines for the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway - for which I am very grateful - and would mention that I currently use the Aspinall 0-6-0 as the typical locomotive for the test consists. When first built they were known as No. 11 or A class, although Hughes later classified them as Class 27. The use of No. 11 as the original classification was because the first one - built in 1889 - was numbered 11. The last ones were withdrawn by British Railways in 1962.
It would appear that I will now have to upload these in the near future. At this moment having completed 85 I still have 26 to complete, although some of the 85 will need minor amendments. Each wagon where relevant will have a load included and other loads would need to be taken from the Common.Loads folder in people's Trainset.
They will be uploaded in wagon types as defined by Noel Coates in his two volume series on Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway wagons. He has provided me with additional help and clarification for a number of the wagons.
As you may be aware my model philosophy is to create models that are representative of their particular type, and hence COMPROMISE is the name of the game. The models will not be exact, and in some cases people will have to grit their teeth or even delete them.

As an aside I would dearly like to create carriages for the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway but suitable reference material is not easily available. I have the book published by The Oakwood Press in 1984 by Rush, but I have been advised that it is not ideal. I am trying to steadily acquire suitable drawings, plans, etc. and there is a book in preparation within the LYR Society on this but not to the same detail as other carriage books. There is currently no firm date for publishing.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 17 Sep 2016, 10:51 am

Having been away for a 5 day break down in the Forest of Dean I have now returned to consider progress on the L & Y wagons. I will be finishing Diagram 18 - a small cattle wagon - shortly. A total of 20 were built in 1890 originally with hand brakes only but subsequently had vacuum brakes added. I will probably do one of each?

I have prepared dimensioned sketches for the next 4 wagons that I intend to model.

I have posted elsewhere on our trip on the Dean Forest Railway, where I purchased a couple of books on carriages - SECR and GNS - which I might model at some time in the future, especially the former. So much I want to do and so little time left to do it all!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sun 18 Sep 2016, 7:57 pm

Diagram 18 finished, but needs a brief test run. Diagram 25 Lower started. This was a one-off van built in 1893, and was used as a Tool Van for the Signal Gang. Unfortunately no known photograph exists and therefore textures will be based on best guestimation!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 19 Sep 2016, 10:17 pm

Here's a preliminary version of Diagram 25 Lower.

Looking at the model I can see a number of errors, namely I've modelled doors either side when in fact they were only on one! In addition the brakes need moving outwards and possibly some tweaks to the textures. I may also add a few shelves, etc. to the inside.
Here's a rake of empty Diagram 18 Cattle Wagons.

So it's back to amending 25 Lower, although I think an early night is called for.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 7:34 pm

Here's the finished version of Diagram 25 Lower

and also Diagram 61 Revised, which is Diagram 61 with an extra set of wheels!

Now I need to decide which one to do next?


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Wed 21 Sep 2016, 7:49 pm

Two of the wagons I'm considering for my next effort are Diagrams 40 and 44 of which a total of 22 were built between 1899 and 1902. They were designed for the carriage of single deck tramcars including their wheels as the well was fitted with gauged rails. I should have enough details to construct the wagons, but currently have no plans or similar for a single deck tramcar! There doesn't appear to be a suitable one in the UKTS download area - knowing me I could have missed them though - and hence was wondering whether anyone had some simple tram car plans I could use to create a load? These wagons lasted into LMS days and several lasted into British Railways service with the last one being withdrawn in December 1953. It should be noted in their later days the rails were covered with 2 inch wooden planking allowing the carriage of buses. It may be worth mentioning that but for the advent of the Second World War they would all probably been withdrawn in the late 1930s.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Fri 23 Sep 2016, 11:53 pm

Whilst sorting out details for Diagrams 40 and 44, I have moved onto Diagram 22 which is a Ballast Brake. It's a little more "fiddly" than I first thought but it's just a case of developing the various parts before joining them all together.
Based on what Ian Macmillan mentioned with respect to building up a model plus similar comments from Brian I shall try and develop a tram model from any pictures I can find.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 26 Sep 2016, 8:36 am

I have now completed Diagram 22 which was known as a Ballast Brake Van. A total of 26 were built between 1880 and 1908. They were used across the system for permanent way work, being a combination of brake van and mess hut. They lasted through the LMS period into British Railway days with at least one still in use in 1959. They were also sometimes noted at the aftermath of accidents providing a waiting "area" got the repair gang.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 01 Oct 2016, 11:50 am

Here's a screenshot showing a short formation comprising L & Y Class 27 + Diagram 23 (Tranship Van) + Diagram 24 (Tranship Van) + Diagram 25 Upper (Tranship and Brake Van). The latter wagon is my latest effort of which six were built between 1893 and 1900. These were all developed in an attempt to speed up loading and/or unloading. Apparently not particularly successful and hence the small numbers of each type.


Mmm . . . looks like the L and Y need moving down slightly on 25 Upper!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 10:47 pm

This is a screenshot of Diagram 31, which is a six wheeled Rail Wagon. A total of 649 were built between 1870s and 1922, and they were typically used for both permanent way work and the movement of general merchandise. I have added a somewhat simple load of rails!

I see that I need to add the corner plates to the body!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 11:13 pm

It's time to take stock of where the workshop stands, and the following wagons are left to do from LYR Focus No 2 which effectively represents the 1906 LYR Wagon Diagram Book.

1 @ 12 ft 0in wheel base wagon.

6 @ bogie wagons.

13 @ miscellaneous wagons i.e. varying wheel base, number of axles and several with smaller diameter wheels.

With a bit of luck and a very strong following wind they may be finished by the end of November? Depends on what I do in the LNWR Carriage Workshop?


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  RIGFindlay on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 10:27 am

Excellent stuff. Roderic

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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 6:50 pm

Thanks for that Roderic, and I am now back to developing Diagram 40.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 8:44 pm

So far I've started on the chassis/body for the Diagram 40, and it wasn't until I looked more closely that I realised the wheels were smaller than those I have used as standard. I've made some new ones, and now I need to develop the bogies as well as complete the chassis/body and add the other bits and pieces!


EDIT - pm 05/10/2016 - starting Diagram 40 chassis from start after incorrect dimensions discovered!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Thu 06 Oct 2016, 6:55 pm

I can't believe that I'm down to just 20 wagons to do, including Diagram 40 that has now had the main chassis remodelled. I also need to redo the bogies and start the braking part.
That leaves one 12ft wheel base wagon (Diagram 67), six bogie wagons (Diagrams 36 lower. 40, 41, 44, 57 and 87) and thirteen "miscellaneous" wagons (Diagrams 28, 33 lower, 34 upper, 34 lower, 35 upper, 35 lower, 37, 38 lower, 43, 75, 78, 79 and 85). I should have enough information to make these representative.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sun 09 Oct 2016, 10:04 am

I have now finished Diagram 40 although I don't as yet have a load for it - on my lengthy "to do" list!

Hopefully I can "cobble" some sort of single deck tram as a load?
I'm going to try the Diagram 67 next - experimental roller bearing axle boxes - after finishing the checking and packaging of L&NWR 45ft and 50ft Arc Non-corridor carriages!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Mon 10 Oct 2016, 7:46 pm

I have created Diagram 67 - 20T Coal Wagon - based on the very similar Diagram 68. The Diagram 67 was a batch of 100 wagons built with experimental roller bearings built in 1906. They were typically used across the L&Y system for Loco Coal haulage. I suspect that the bogies I have created are not really correct, but . . . .


May move onto Diagram 28 next, as I have completed packaging for all L&NWR non-corridor carriages up to and including 50ft Arc roof profile. This will mean a current total of 7 uploads, but I will liaise with Brian to see whether his L&NWR locomotives might be available at the same time?


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  Jonathan David on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 9:33 am

You are making me think I really ought to learn how to do wagons - as if I didn't have enough to do already with modelling and editing.
I can't remember seeing the Diagram 71 "Goole half end door" wagon mentioned. These were built in 1906, according to Nigel Coates, and look a lot like the loco coal wagons but were revenue wagons and would have been seen over a wider area.
I can see why you are setting a cut-off date of 1906, though it does exclude the "big" wagons the LYR built later.
But my real reason for posting is loads. There are several very nice photos in Coates of wagons loaded with sacks, and of course one of the main traffics was bales of cotton from Liverpool eastwards. It would be good if someone could contribute suitable loads for some of your wagons. I am not sure if the cotton was protected by tarpaulins - see for example Coates volume 1 page 118 (Plate 108) and I think page 180 (Plate 144). Unfortunately copies of Coates' two volumes don't seem to be cheap on the second hand market.
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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 11:33 am

I'm all for fellow simmers turning their hand to modelling. For your information I have completed a model of Diagram 71, and a picture is shown here:-

I have both volumes of Noel Coates' books together with the L&Y Focus No 2 which lists all the wagon diagrams based on the 1906 Diagram Book. Of the wagons listed in this book I have 18 left to do. I believe that this and the other books address all of the L&Y Wagons. I also have contact with Noel for his advice and help on wagons. Being a member of the L&Y Society is also of great help, and if you or anyone is interested in the L&Y I would strongly recommend joining. To the best of my knowledge cotton bales would be covered by tarpaulins or similar for obvious reasons. The illustration in the book(s) is meant to show the method of loading prior to covering.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 2:04 pm

As an addendum to the previous post, I have tried to create a covered cotton bale load but it wasn't too successful. My intention now is to complete all wagons including a load where it is relatively simple, and when they are complete go through them all making any minor alterations, adding additional loads where relevant and sorting wagon types into suitable upload packages.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 2:47 pm

These pictures show the list of L&Y wagons either done or to be done.



See later post for updated info on Bogie and Miscellaneous Wagons


Last edited by rufuskins on Thu 27 Oct 2016, 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Deleted two pictures, which are revised - see later post.)


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Tue 11 Oct 2016, 11:15 pm

I can now colour Diagram 28 green as I completed it just now.

In the Diagram Book page 28 covered a number of different sized tanks - a total of 15 - and they carried a variety of different substances. I have chosen this as a representative for this diagram, although only one was built in 1897 and based at Newton Heath.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 9:15 am

Here's the next one, namely Diagram 41 - 20T Twin Boiler - which effectively comprised two single bolsters altered to provide support to a boiler. I have yet to finalise the boiler itself for this wagon. Three pairs were created in 1901 but were changed back to single bolsters (Diagram 32A) circa 1906.



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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  RIGFindlay on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 10:12 am

Excellent. R.

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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 10:58 am

Thanks Roderic.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 9:28 am

Diagram 85 is now complete including a load. These were 20T Rail Wagons of which 36 were built between 1912 and 1915. They were a solidly constructed single bolster used for permanent way work. The screenshot shows a rake of five behind the ubiquitous L&Y Class 27 with a Diagram 61 Rev Brake Van - strictly speaking they should be labelled Break Vans, which was the L&Y terminolgy!


Right! That now leaves just 15 to do!

I should point out that I will be looking to add strapping to this sort of load when I go through them prior to upload. "Elf and Safety" wouldn't be impressed when the train braked suddenly!


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 22 Oct 2016, 8:12 pm

I am still developing Diagram 78 - Ballast Wagon - but it is proving a slow project. To take a break I've built Diagram 36L, which is a Twin Timber wagon and is essentially pairs of bolster wagons paired together for moving timber. There were something like 304 pairs made, and were used all over the L & Y system. A screenshot for 36L is shown below:-

I've yet to make up a load of timber.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sun 23 Oct 2016, 2:32 pm

I've now created loads for Diagram 36L as well as Diagram 41. I've also started Diagram 44, which was used for the carriage of tram bodies. Here's the beginnings of the chassis/body.

However I've not forgotten Diagram 78, which I'll drop back onto later this evening.

PS Here's a shot of the body development for Diagram 78.



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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Wed 26 Oct 2016, 8:04 am

I've now completed Diagram 44 apart from the load, and here's a screenshot:-

These wagons were considered to be an improvement of Diagram 40, and a total of 10 were built between 1901 and 1902. Like the Diagram 40 they were used to carry single deck tramcars.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 8:26 am

I've now completed Diagram 78, which was a 20T steel convertible wagon used as a permanent way vehicle capable of carrying sleepers or ballast It had "ploughs" at either end to help spread the ballast between rails. The sides were removable for when carrying sleepers. Twelve (12) were built between 1910 and 1914.
The following screenshot shows a rake of 5 wagons carrying ballast, which is the way that I have modelled it:-

I shall now complete Diagram 37, which was a Gas Receiver wagon adopted as the standard type for this duty.


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Re: Rufuskins' Workshop LYR Wagons

Post  rufuskins on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 1:19 pm

. . . and here is Diagram 37, which was a Gas Receiver wagon. A total of 17 were built between 1896 and 1914, used for supplying gas to carriages.

Now need to see which ones I will have a go at next.


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