Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

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Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 8:17 am

I have relocated the old "Rufuskins' Workshop" in the Forum Dump, and will now start a new thread.

In the first instance I will post the up-to-date spreadsheet for the FG DMU Repaint Project having completed the last uploads for MSTS Easter Eggstravaganza. At a total of 46 I believe that I have met the dictionary definition of spectacular - pity I can't blow a real trumpet!  Wink   Wink   Wink 



In the immediate future I will be concentrating on my LYR virtual wagon models using TSM, although I ought to try and finish Classes 108 and 113 I suppose!


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  j3801 on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 11:56 am

Alec,

Congratulations are in order, not only is UKTS's home page showing all your work but so is the entire first page of uploads.
It truly is a remarkable amount of time and effort that you have dedicated to the FGDMU project.
We should all be inspired by your dedication to getting these units done and uploaded.

Justin

(p.s. this message is in no way meant as sarcasm, I truly do admire the amount of work that has gone into these uploads).



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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  slipperman12 on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 2:10 pm

Hi Alec,
I'd like to echo Justin's sentiments  Smile 
Well done! It's been a real labour of love (I hope) for you!!

Cheers,
Ged

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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 4:15 pm

Thank you Justin and Ged for your kind words. It was a challenge and gave me a purpose, but towards the end there was an element of chore in the work. However the superb efforts by Bob Latimer in creating the BIN engine files was the incentive needed to approach the finishing line, and I would once again express my appreciation of this work plus all the checking of the initial sets. THANK YOU BOB! Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy 

I'm going to read Justin's tutorial on spoked wheels now, and then hopefully create some!  Shocked   Shocked   Shocked 


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  35005CP on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 6:34 pm

I too would like to echo Ged and Justin's posts and say a huge thankyou for uploading all these sets. It's going to take me sometime to download all these, but there has certainly been some variety for MSTS during Easter. My thanks also goes to everyone else whom has uploaded something. Goes to show there is still a lot of Interest and Scope in the ole girl yet!
Look forward to the next one.  Very Happy 
Happy Easter everyone!
Best Wishes
Andy


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 11:09 pm

It's been a difficult day as I had some bad (expensive) news on the car front. Both front springs are broken - I would guess courtesy of the local council's speed bumps. I can still drive it but obviously carefully!!!!!! Now waiting for some new ones. In addition SWMBO has not been on top form, which has meant a few more life tasks. Mind you this has enabled me to acquire a day pass for the first Saturday in May for a visit to another model railway exhibition - in Cleckheaton which is some 23 miles away.

This has restricted my MSTS time. I have however completed my first set of spoked wheels courtesy of a tutorial provided by Justin - thank you for that.



I have started from scratch and will create a series of individual parts that are common to many of the LYR wagons that are on my to do list.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  35005CP on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 11:24 pm

Looks good Alec. Hopefully you can transfer parts from one to another in the models that you do?
Andy


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 8:55 pm

Created a new set of oil boxes and springs and added them to the wheels.



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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  35005CP on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:23 pm

Very nice work Alec.... Once you put the textures on those springs its going to look fab!
Cheers
Andy


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:22 pm

Ooops . . . I have but perhaps they need re-doing!


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  35005CP on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:28 pm

Did you put the textures on the right part in the properties section?


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 6:30 am

I have revisited the textures and corrected them to give a better differentiation between the leaves of the spring. I've now found that I used an incorrect datum for the parts that fix to the underside of the chassis. More speed less haste methinks! Will revisit them later depending on a number of household duties, and mainly because it's the good lady wife's birthday!


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  35005CP on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:45 am

Many Happy Returns to your good lady!  Very Happy 

 HappyBirthday HappyBirthday HappyBirthday HappyBirthday HappyBirthday HappyBirthday HappyBirthday HappyBirthday HappyBirthday B\'day Cake B\'day Surprise B\'day Cake B\'day Surprise B\'day Cake B\'day Surprise B\'day Cake B\'day Surprise


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 3:46 pm

Ilma says thank you for your good wishes.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Sun 27 Apr 2014, 8:27 pm

Two steps forward, one step back and so the TSM modelling goes! Anyway here's where I'm at with some wheels, WIrons, grease/oil boxes and springs for a Diagram 80 Low LYR Wagon  Many of these "bits" will do for other wagons.



The chassis, upper body and brackets are "sort of done" but need serious texture work.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 01 May 2014, 9:30 pm

Been a bit hectic this week and MSTS activity has been restricted. My brother is in hospital over at Chester with a minor heart problem and that involved a trip west. The garden is proving to be time consuming, although all I need to do now is some planting and resuscitation of the lawn!

Anyway I have taken the LYR Diagram 80 Low Wagon to near completion as shown below:-


There are still some tweaks required. I seem to have incorrectly defined the texture for the insides of the wheel spokes. The other textures might need some refinement. I have also not yet added the various guides for the handbrakes. There is scope for poly deletion where faces are unseen, although I have done some.

Once these points have been addressed I will send the wagon to Justin for a serious review and pointers to where I can improve things.

PS Just realised that the wagon needs lowering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Sat 03 May 2014, 8:46 pm

Very little done today as I was at Cleckheaton for the Bradford MRC show. One or two nice layouts, and I bought Volume 3 of Marshall's history of the LYR. Just need Volume 2 now.
Alec


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  35005CP on Sat 03 May 2014, 9:12 pm

Looks pretty good to me Alec.  Smile 
Will you just be releasing this one wagon or will you use this as a template to do some others and release as a pack?
Cheers
Andy


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Sun 04 May 2014, 8:06 am

I'm hoping to correct some of the little errors over the next few days, and then look to use many of the standard bits to create several other Low Goods Wagons - as they were termed on the LYR. I will then add some loads using the common.loads folder. Initially they should be available as an upload in LYR livery, followed by LMS livery and in a few cases British Railways livery. After that I shall move back onto Covered Goods Wagons - the LYRs term for Van!
At this time not entirely sure where the uploads will be located?


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Mon 12 May 2014, 8:44 pm

I thought that I had completed the model of the Diagram 80 wagon and exported it to MSTS where it showed up in ShapeViewer but wouldn't show in MSTS. Removing a part of the model allowed it to show in MSTS but not correctly.

I need to revise the axes centring as part of the corrections, and work out what is causing the "hiccup" in the offending part.

Managed to download several of the new version files for MONON and should complete these downloads tomorrow.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Tue 13 May 2014, 6:39 pm

MONON route downloads complete, so next I need to download the available freeware for the Monon acts and also to assess how much it will cost to get the BLW/ZT stock!

Tonight I'm going to try my hand at modelling the shell of a Bulleid 59 foot Corridor Composite coach, although it will also be for the 59 foot Corridor Brake Third. These would be suitable for the 3 coach sets 963 to 980. Perhaps someone could tell me which services they would have been used on and what typical engine would have been allocated?


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  slipperman12 on Tue 13 May 2014, 6:52 pm

Hi Alec,
I apologise if you've done so already, but MONON-2 requires XTracks, newrds and ScaleRail Roads to be installed.  Newrds is version 3.2 of NewRoads and includes dynamic shadows, so is different to that normally specified for use with UK routes (V4.0) - I don't know if it'll work with that version.  ScaleRail Roads requires the installation of tsection.dat build #41, or later.   I also found it necessary to download and install the missing shapes (missing_shapes.zip).
In order to ensure the route ran satisfactorily, I didn't install the Monon-2_17-con-act-serv-tr.exe file as I know I haven't got all (much of!) the stock.

Cheers,
Ged

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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Tue 13 May 2014, 10:24 pm

Ged, thanks for the tips. I hadn't realised it needed an earlier version of New Roads or that it required a later Tsection! I'm sure I've got Scale Rail somewhere in the system - I hope so as the Monon link required a log in. If I have one the synaptic gaps have nor been bridged!

It's a typical problem with activities for US routes in so far as they make use of a lot of commercial stuff and in particular BLW/ZT. I suppose one could spend time finding equivalent stock on trainsim?


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  slipperman12 on Tue 13 May 2014, 10:48 pm

Hi Alec,
Just to clarify - it doesn't need ScaleRail! It requires ScaleRail Roads. It is free, but you do need to be a member of the 3DTrains Forum.

Cheers,
Ged



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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Wed 14 May 2014, 2:07 pm

Once again thanks for the "heads up" Ged. I have found a V3.2 of New Roads on Trainsim. If I install it will it overwrite v4.0?

Anyway back to the wagon in TSM. I have started a to re-assemble it - hopefully using the right set of axes - and the screenshot below illustrates them behind a 2-4-2 LYR Tank. Admittedly only the underframe, "bogies" and wheel sets but they work!



I'll slowly add more bits and this should tell me which is the rogue element.

I have also experimented with trying to create the shell for the 59ft Bulleid coach. So far so good but the coach ends need some thinking about; i.e. matching curved surfaces with angled faces.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  NiallGray on Wed 14 May 2014, 2:40 pm

While it's not something I'd probably use due to my affection for modern(ish) stuff, I do enjoy reading your thread to see your progress.

Keep up the good work!


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Wed 14 May 2014, 3:03 pm

Niall, thanks for your kind words. For some reason MSTS will not "entertain" my Brake Gear. In addition there's an overlap of the buffers, and therefore I need to "play" with the Bounding Boxes.

I chose LYR because I was trying to see what I could model that hadn't been done before, as well as the fact that the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway was the main provider in my locale!

Anyway it's time for walking the dog, after which I may get back to sorting this wagon out. It really is a case of trial and error, but all the same can be very frustrating.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Wed 14 May 2014, 9:08 pm

Did I say frustrating? Well yes I did and here's the frustrating problem before attempting a solution!
The first picture shows the Bounding Boxes as illustrated in Shape Viewer after running the wagon through the Eng/Wag editor in Route Riter.

The second picture shows the situation of two wagons "coupled" together, and it is obvious what the problem is!

I suppose I can fiddle with the various size lines and see whether I can open them out, but I was under the impression that the corrections in Route Riter were meant to ensure that this didn't need to happen?
MSTS still doesn't like my Brake Gear so I need to find an alternative method of modelling it - Justin suggested that it could be done by  a FreightAnim line!


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  slipperman12 on Wed 14 May 2014, 9:31 pm

Hi Alec,
Regarding the interlocked buffers, I can't really offer any suggestions, except - have a look here : http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/length.html Smile

Cheers,
Ged

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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  35005CP on Wed 14 May 2014, 9:55 pm

Hi Alec,
All I can suggest is you manually adjust the .wag file so that the Size and InertiaTensor Lines read exactly the same figures.
Cheers
Andy


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  Bob Latimer on Wed 14 May 2014, 10:11 pm

Alec,

Going from memory (which isn't always perfect!), the Route_Riter "fix" is based on knuckle couplers. There's a parameter in there somewhere that is deducted from the overall length (as measured by Shape Viewer) to get the distance between the centers of knuckle couplers (so they overlap when coupled). That's not appropriate for buffered stock, where you want the length between the ends of the buffers, and you get the overlapping buffers effect. Check out the tutorial on Steam4Me, it explains it better than I can. Again from memory, I think there's a way to change the deduction parameter in Route_Riter so that you can use it's automatic fix on buffered stock.

Bob.

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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 15 May 2014, 7:34 am

RR is based on Yuri's tutorial, but I hadn't realised about the knuckle effect. I'll have a look at Route Riter again and see what can be done. Thank you gentlemen for your comments which are always useful.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 15 May 2014, 8:24 am

Couldn't initially see how to amend the base data in RR. However by trial and error have arrived at this:-

Instead of deducting 0.4m from the overall length - as per RR - I only took off 0.2m, and then took another 0.4m off for the InertiaTensor line as well as the ESD line in the SD file; i.e. 0.2m from the + and - values of Z.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 15 May 2014, 8:45 pm

Having "sorted" the overlap problem I'm now having problems making the wheels sit on the track. In TSM the origin appears to match the underside of the rail section and I set up the model related to the origin but the whole model sits quite a way above the top of the rail. When I say set up related to rail section in TSM I added this to the wheel part and lined up the underside of the wheel with the top of the rail section. I measured the Y dimension and subtracted it from the wheel radius, using the resultant to add to all of my Y coordinates. This would appear to be wrong in some way, and if anyone can give me some pointers I would be most grateful? Embarassed  Embarassed  Embarassed 

Went to the S/H railway bookshop in Huddersfield - Nick Tozer - this afternoon and did a deal whereby I gave him some of the books I no longer really need plus £5 and he gave me Vol 2 of Marshall's LYR history and Mason's similar history as well as another coach book. Having limited space I need to be quite selective in my railway book library, especially now that I've moved into TSM modelling. All I need to do now is to actually complete a model that looks something like, sits on the rail and doesn't overlap!  Shocked   Shocked   Shocked 

Might have a second attempt at the Bulleid 59 foot coach later.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  ianmacmillan on Fri 16 May 2014, 12:28 am

Sorry I havn't replied.
Thought it had gone quiet in here and just noticed I wasn't logged in.

The overlap is down to the size line.
Size is the amount of space a wagon is allowed in a consist.
Should be just over the length over buffer faces.
Use Shape viewer to get the length and add a wee bit extra.

Take a little off and half it for the bounding box.
I make the bounding box line up with the buffer body.

MSTS rail hight is above the origin.
My wagons run on their flanges with the tread 0.12ft above origin.

Make a box 4x4x4 move it 2ft above origin and centre it to origin. Name it Main.
add you wheel and name it wheels11 centre it to object and parent it to Main.
Now convert it to MSTS as a wagon.
Test it in the sim and tweak it's hight in TSM until it sits perfectly on the rail.
Save the wheel part and use it as a master.

If you want to send me the wagon, I'll have a look and see if I can find the problem with the brake gear.

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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Sun 18 May 2014, 10:51 am

Not much done since last post, apart from sending Ian a copy of my model in order that he might cast his eagle eye over it. I've spent a little time reorganising my railway books so that I can reach the current relevant ones a little more easily. In addition I'm trying to finalise my immediate plans - never forgetting SWMBO's list!

I want to finish my first wagon model and now that June MSTS is extended into July MSTS that gives me a chance to upload then. I acknowledge that LYR wagons are not exactly everyone's cup of tea or relevant to many routes but . . . . ! Once that is done then several others in the Low Goods range can follow.

I've tried some basic shell modelling for 59 foot Bulleid coaches and after the first attempt I need to restart it in order to better model the ends.

I've done some scaling off plans and pictures for Hawksworth coaches in order to attempt them later.

After the LYR Low Goods Wagons I can move onto Vans, and then who knows what I might attempt. I have plans for LMS shunters including the forerunner of the Class 08 as well as the LMS jackshaft shunter - although the latter looks extremely daunting. I also have plans for LNWR wagons and some for LYR coaches - the latter will need much scaling!

These schemes and dreams all go to show that there is still scope for additional stock for MSTS, and if only SWMBO's list wasn't so long!  Shocked   Shocked   Shocked


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Mon 19 May 2014, 7:39 pm

One step forward on the TSM front in so far as I've managed to get the wheels to sit on the track!

Two steps backward following Ian's report on my wagon, in so far as the 3 links are causing some of the problems as well as the brake gear. Ian has suggested some changes which I will consider.

Oh well onwards and upwards.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Tue 20 May 2014, 7:59 am

I've fiddled and faddled - including remodelling the coupling - and currently reached this position:-


As far as I can tell this appears to be OK apart from the polygon numbers. Anyway I'll move onto the underframe proper, wagon body and brakegear. The illustrated wagon is the beginnings of an LYR Diagram 1 Low Goods Wagon.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 22 May 2014, 4:21 pm

OK I finished the Diagram 1 wagon model, but it would not load into MSTS although it showed in ShapeViewer. I had remodelled the BrakeGear and therefore hoped it would be OK. Removing the new Brake Gear once again allowed it to load and work in MSTS. Here's a screenshot showing the result without the BrakeGear:-



I have now started to add each part of the BrakeGear to see if I can identify an offending part. So far so good.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  ianmacmillan on Thu 22 May 2014, 5:04 pm

I think you are exceeding the poly limit.

I don't think there is any problem with the brake gear.
On the D80 I removed the couplings and the brakes loaded OK.
Try it.

When you convert from TSM to MSTS, TSM joins all the unanimated parts into one big part.
THis can exceed the limit.

Try giving the brakes and couplings false animation or making subobjects with Polymaster.

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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 22 May 2014, 6:37 pm

Er  .  .  .  what is the polygon limit? I have attempted to remove all polygons that aren't visible! I can get to this stage after which the wagons fail to load.



I can see several parts that could be simplified, which might allow the brake guides to be added.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 22 May 2014, 7:33 pm

Whether the right way or not I have managed to get the wagon to load and it has run behind an Aspinall 2-4-2T. Following Ian's suggestion I gave the Brake Gear a dummy rotation, which seems to have done the trick as illustrated below:-



Now I need to improve some of the texturing!


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  ianmacmillan on Thu 22 May 2014, 7:36 pm

Not sure what the poly limit is.
A wagon should be nowhere near it.

My L&Y dropside in the Highworth download weighs in at 1936 - the LMS version with 4shoe brakes is 1992.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 22 May 2014, 8:52 pm

I see! According to the project statistics poly count before conversion is 3462 and after 7924!



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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Thu 22 May 2014, 10:30 pm

Anyway whatever the shortcomings I'm still pleased that I have created a wagon that sits on the rails, the buffers don't overlap, the wheels turn and it actually looks a little bit like the original!



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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  ianmacmillan on Thu 22 May 2014, 11:07 pm

Best way to go about making things is to start with the textures.

Unfortunately the drawing in the book is too cluttered to use but Alex has made an accurate model so why not use that.

I started by repainting the existing textures to make them clearer then took screenshots in Shape Viewer.








I then copied and pasted the parts into a 512x512 bitmap.



After tidying up the texture and adding detail the texture was sent to TSM and applied to the model.



Finally the texture was given the correct colours and converted in Aceit

Here is the result.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Fri 23 May 2014, 7:23 am

For those that might be interested the above is based on the LYR Diagram 80 Low Goods Wagon with a 10' 6" w/b and 20' 0" o/a body length that I sent to Ian for review and comment. My subsequent work was based on Diagram 1 with a 9' 0" w/b and 16' 0" o/a body length.

I was hoping to produce models of LYR Diagrams 1, 2, 11, 14, 74 and 80 Low Goods Wagons, but it would appear that I have a long way to go before I can produce anything that might be worth uploading.

In the short term I'm going to shut myself away in the workshop and decide whether it's worth the effort.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  ianmacmillan on Fri 23 May 2014, 10:15 am

Don't be discouraged Alex. IT IS worth the effort.

It's steep learning curve but you're half way there.
(some people will say I'm completely round the bend.!)

You've made the mistakes and learned from them.
It gets easier from here.
Just keep trying.

We all look forward to the results.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Mon 26 May 2014, 4:12 pm

Slowly developing a third LYR Low Goods Wagon, but I will not be posting any intermediate screenshots. If the wagon looks something like then we'll see! So far nothing done today as SMBO and I visited Summerseat and Bury stations for the ELR's 40s weekend. 80080 (BR Standard 4MT) and 61994 (LNER K4 "The Great Marquess") were seen, SWMBO took some pics so I'll see if I can get copies. Didn't go onto the platform at Bury because it was £5 each for a platform ticket, which I thought was a bit steep!!! Still others must have paid as it seemed fairly busy.


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Re: Rufuskins' New Workshop Notes

Post  rufuskins on Wed 28 May 2014, 9:24 pm

OK, here's my final effort for the LYR Diagram 2 Low Goods Wagon. It may not be perfect but it's mine!

I'll now use a number of the parts for the Diagrams 1, 11 and 14.


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